optimizing Steamhammer’s openings
Iruian donated some protoss openings with weights as used in the bot Antiga. I will distribute them with Steamhammer, but I’m still pondering exactly how. The openings are supposed to be straight from Liquipedia, and the ensemble is claimed 50 to 100 elo stronger than Steamhammer’s default protoss openings. I don’t have any reason to doubt it, but I’m still in the process of checking the openings myself.
Unfortunately, there are reasons not to take openings straight out of Liquipedia without testing. Most of Steamhammer’s provided openings are modified from Liquipedia versions, and sometimes the changes are major. (Some were taken from other sources, and a few were developed from scratch, starting with no more than the opening stem and a plan.)
Sometimes Liquipedia is unhelpful, if not outright wrong. I think the 12 pool lurker build on this page is a prime example. It says you should adhere to the build strictly. But if you build everything that the build order calls for, then lurkers are severely delayed, and the build order makes no sense (at least to me); use a 12 hatch build instead. If you minimize the build to get lurkers as fast as possible, then you end up with 4 or more larvas for a long stretch after the second hatchery finishes, meaning that there was no reason to get the second hatchery so soon; you should have stuck with a single hatchery build. Presumably a pro can weigh the situation and decide what extra stuff is good to make, but Steamhammer doesn’t have that skill. So I found the Liquipedia build order unhelpful.
Often Steamhammer plays poorly in the middle game, and the weak play can be worked around or delayed by extending the opening. This is the main reason to deviate from standard builds: Alter the opening so that Steamhammer plays it better.
BOSS is weak, which causes terran and protoss to play poorly after the opening. BOSS tends to build too many production buildings—I often see 6 or 7 gateways on a one-base income that can support 4 gateways, which is wasteful. BOSS also likes to bunch the production of similar things, not keeping the nexus and gateways busy at the same time, but rather “probe probe probe probe zealot zealot zealot zealot”, where first the nexus is busy, then the nexus goes idle and the gateways become busy. It’s crazy inefficient.
That is why Steamhammer’s 9-9Gate
opening is so long and detailed. If it ended early like the Liquipedia build, then BOSS would take over sooner and build inefficiently, and the bot would fall behind in probe count and zealot count for the rest of the game. I know this for sure, because I’ve run the different variants head-to-head. Dave Churchill optimized the 9-9 gate opening already for UAlbertaBot, and he did an excellent job. I optimized the 10-12 gate opening myself in a similar way and did not do it as thoroughly; it has room for improvement.
Someday I’ll write a new macro system and drop BOSS, but not yet. I might be able to get to it this year....
Sometimes the middle game strategy decisions are silly. Terran and protoss are especially short on strategy smarts, but the zerg strategy boss also has many weaknesses. In one frustrating example, if the opening build makes a spire but doesn’t make the mutalisks, Steamhammer may decide that lurkers were a better idea after all, get no lair units for a long time, and lose. There are many ways for the strategy boss to misunderstand the strategy behind an opening, so that you have to write a long explicit build order. Some openings I have shortened after improving the strategy boss. Some openings have legacy endings that it might be good to remove.
Anyway, the bottom line is that Steamhammer is not strong enough to play Liquipedia opening builds uncritically. Some are fine, some will confuse the poor bot.
On the other hand, Steamhammer’s existing protoss openings leave a lot to be desired. They’re more a demonstration of what’s possible than a sound selection. It’s no surprise if Antiga’s openings are stronger.
Next: Looking at the donated openings.
Comments
Iruian / Antiga on :
Iruian / Antiga on :
I helped Purplewave a great deal with it's build orders etc. and was able to help it in some ways improve greatly in the current build.
If anyone ever needs the broodwar community semi-pro / retired pro consultants I can likely find one to help you with your project, just reach out to me on discord.
Jay Scott on :
Iruian /Antiga on :
Jay Scott on :
Jay Scott on :
Iruian /Antiga on :
Multiple building repair for Terran + construction restarting on scv loss and pylon repowering for toss would be huge upgrades.
Jay Scott on :
MicroDK on :
Marian on :
- 9 pool or 12 hatch are the best in ZvP and ZvT
- 12 pool would only be solid in ZvZ
- alternative to 9 pool is overpool (more eco, slower ling timing)
- alternative to 12 hatch is 11 hatch maybe 10 hatch on some maps (point is to counter some very aggressive PvZ oppenings such as 9/10 gate, while having a slightly worse eco; could also be used in ZvZ)
- point of 9 pool is to either apply pressure or just safely take exp
(many pro players block expansion area with e-bay or pylon, especially on 2 player maps; fortunately bots don't do this.. yet)
- after your first expansion you can go either 2-hatch tech or 3-hatch tech or second expansion(third base)
- you should take your extractor right away (after second hatch or third hatch) to have the best lair timing
- to have the best lurker timing your den should start around when lair is half done
- second gas is usually take after lair is finished
- if you are going for muta timing attack you should start saving your larva around when spire is half done; you should build some overlords ahead though (a good planner can do this by itself without any hardcoded rules)
- taking third base right away is considered only safe vs protoss fast expand; vs terran you like to have either lurkers or mutalisks help you defend your third
- 2-hatch tech is much faster; but if you fail to do decent damage with you lair tech units (especially vs fast exp builds) you are likely dead
- 1-hatch plays are possible but are considered allin (your opponent can usually adapt well by just adding the right amount of static defence)
- delayed/no lair mass hydra bust vs protoss is great vs fast expand and can also be used vs 1 base protoss
- early mass lings with speed can be used to bust terran fast expansions or protoss fast expansions with bad building placement (but are less reliable than hydra busts vs protoss)
- in ZvZ there is a sort of tic-tac-toe build order advantage table:
5 pool < 9 pool
5 pool > 12 pool
5 pool >> hatch first
9 pool < 12 pool
9 pool > hatch first
12 pool < hatch first
=> if you build your pool later then your opponent then you have more drones, but if you build it too late you won't have enough lings to defend as the enemy arrives
krasi0 on :
When are you updating KIllerbot on SSCAIT?