new bot RedRum
RedRum is a new terran bot. I would say “Yay!” but this version of RedRum is identical to Steamhammer 2.3 playing terran. It’s the same binary with a different name, and there are no changes to the configuration file that affect play. It does give the author as Ayran Olckers, the bot name as SteamRoll v0.1, and the bot’s race surprisingly as protoss.
I suppose this is a test run to figure out how to do stuff. Version 0.1 implies a future version with a bigger number. When RedRum starts to become interesting, perhaps under a different name if it turns into protoss, I’ll write about it again.
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MarcoDBAA on :
I would rather disable bots, that had no updates for a long time, when they are just relatively unchanged descendents of other bots, than simply using the low elo metric to always disable the bots that win the least games. This isn´t a good thing, as I said before.
But there is hope of course, that this new bot will change over time, to become more unique. But more or less abandoned clones and half clones don´t need to stay, just because they inherited rather good elo from their ancestors.
Joseph Huang on :
Jay Scott on :
MarcoDBAA on :
This isn´t a pro gaming tournament. It is expected, that the people watching, are people that either have a bot, or are at least somewhat interested in AI. I considered myself one of the most noninvolved (amateurish) people there, and even I already created an AI for my evolution simulator mod. You have to create interest in people that might write bots (and get them involved), not really people that watch Starleague games. These will only really get interested, when the bots become a threat vs a pro gamer (or nearly so).
Even some current top bots needed these low tier bots, to get some wins in at first. The first version of McRave for example was just winning vs these disabled low tier bots. Sure, McRaves author probably would have stayed in the competition nevertheless, but not all people might think that way. Or they might not even upload and stop development.
They also might think, that they need to use good templates now, because it might be "too late" in 2019 to still create an original bot. Also not the best thing.
People that maintain these ladders can of course do what they want (they have to work to establish and maintain them after all). I am just stating my opinion here (this blog is read by people after all) to counter other possible opinions. And this opinion is: Creating an elite field (more and more over time) will reduce the number of newcomers, and this isn´t a good thing.
P.S: Using Jays idea might work well.
krasi0 on :
2) every bot update (be it a weak or a strong bot) automatically re-enables the bot so if an author is willing to, they can keep their weak bot constantly enabled by doing small, incremental updates from time to time
MarcoDBAA on :
Marine Hell is only expected to beat 5 other bots at the moment (elo rating ).
But Roman Danielis shows the problem I consider existing better:
At the moment, Roman Danielis has the 5th lowest elo rating.
This clearly makes it one of the low tier bots in 2019. His bot was never updated, so we can check how well it did in earlier years. In 2014 https://sscaitournament.com/index.php?action=2014 Danielis won 26 games and lost 15 games, and would have qualified for the knockout round, if it would have been played with 16 bots at that time.
Bots have become better since then, but many weaker bots were indeed disabled and even Roman Danielis itself was disabled for some time. Sure, many of the weaker ones crashed too often, or slowed down the games, or were just boring (weak 4 pools and other simple strats), not just weaker.
But I do think, that disabling went too far, and the field is too elitist now, very possibly explaining the absence of new bots and especially new original ones. And this amplifies the problem, because older weaker bots were are often not replaced by newer weaker ones.
2. Sure, but this isn´t really the problem. The existence of these bots made new entries able to compete. If you cannot beat anyone you may not upload your bot, you may get discouraged, and you may think, that your bot isn´t really wanted there.
I always used the weaker ones to get new entries some competitive games by voting. And even if you knew the old ones, and sure, they weren´t too good, a game with the newcomer could be fun. Also some of the existing newer low tier ones are not as interesting as some disabled ones, so there exist less options to find an interesting opponent.
If the lower half of the (bot)-ladder is missing, it is just difficult to climb the ladder and/or people will not even try...
Jay Scott on :